iran - what a mess and disaster. apparently votes were never even counted. tiots, demonstrations, violence. 120 members of the faculty of the university resigned in protest. secret police all over. false rumors. yesterday/last night all communication shut down, power also in some places. it is restored today. foreign news people - some - asked to leave the country. and lots more. the us press is not covering much except a few. bbc and telegraph in the uk doing a much better job. twit has the best info from ppl in tehran.
we're having the 40 days/nights again it seems. you want rain? t-storms? start in florida and go north. it's all over. i guess it's good for the ducks :)
I like your point about dialogue, and let me give a quick explanation of my method in response.
Using base 5, rather than computing Base 2, or financial/economic Base 10/12, i started to evaluate communication ethics (big field, ten years work plus) and found that i a simple mathematical means used to structure the multi-modal nature of the many sources i was reading was helpful...i then found that by exploiting the method in simple graphical templates, what was complex became simple so that anyone could get hold of it, use it and share it. This 'open' method also implied a more collaborative approach to knowledge evaluation (because it is open and shares sources and concepts equally from all participants in similar formats). Such an insight also offers a re-situation of the technology-human relation. We humans really need a 'low-tech' solution to dealing with technology and overcoming its priority, one of the many reasons i like the globalsensemaking community as this is clearly their aim.
So thinking of communication ethics using the method, we divided the discipline into five domains, based on how its taught in unis., they are: political, media, organisation (network), group and interpersonal.
Now, applying that model to dialogue, an interesting/creative and critical outcome is suggested (heuristic knowledge not certainty, as you can appreciate):
interpersonal - monologue (concept exists, isn't there a lot of it?)
group - dialogue - concept exists but has to be more carefully differentiated from debate and other forms of group communication as you mention.
organisation - decalogue - exists in medieval lit. Boccacio's Decameron, but more fittingly describes a multi-streamed communication limited by certain frameworks.
media - multilogue - as you suggest, but describing a massive interpretive cultural/technological communication beyond anyone to confront?
political - demologue - i'm not sure this concept exists elswhere, although rather useful. It describes a political act which Habermas, following Plato amongst others, puts at the heart of democracy. Funny, but in my studies of language it appears that quite often political language is omitted, hollowed out or carefully prescribed to reduce the value of words that call to account the political systems and powers...?
I am completing a research project on the nature of corporate dialogue practices, (for the record, minimal), and then straight onto the software development which wraps the base 5 numerics into a transparent, communication ethics based approach to visual presentation of data/information/communication/knowledge/judgement - BTW the models are integrated by running a 36 grid in which each heuristic is mapped against another, creating such two-word concepts as political dialogue, media dialogue, organisation dialogue etc - this displays a sort of optimum dialectical pattern for total implications of using the two models together.
Anyone can use the method 5+...and everyone does...its just that by formalising our social sense-making in simple numeric structures (visually the patterns are stunnning following from chaos, complexity, geometry, planatary and cellular, 'organic' patterns), while the key link is the simple numeric base beneath the template visuals.
Its an open source approach - we have a gateway symbol for communication ethics, which is our property, but other than that anyone can play the game - and they can devise their own gateway and build their own cultured approaches which we can then share...
These ideas have been published over a number of years and are now commonly used by governments and corporations alike, especiially in the education and sustainability fields.
Personally, I'm just interested in seeing a more ethical human-participative domain where people can flourish through their own critical-creative expression, and the myths of a violent-intemperate past are diminished to assist evolve our species. Women are at the forefront of this all, and my partner and women friends all respond to the system in a similar way...this is how we think...
Please read Plato's Republic (despite terrifying lack of women!!) to see that original dialogues were not competitive at their core - appearance/actuality is part of a subverted Pythagorean inception in which Plato was immersed and which suggested that knowledge was given out in certain ways to reduce its distortion - dialogue in Plato is part of an eductational-community practice that sorts knowledge via self-governance... surely where we are getting back to now, only using ICT to 'memorise' and 'comparatise'...
Aristotle and the Roman Church diminished Plato's 'divine' achievement I believe, and in doing so diminished much Western thought including the separation of women and the heresy of reincarnation. Of course, logics also laid out by Plato (the dialectic, drawn from the Pythagoreans) were taken up by Aristotle, and became a source of technological thinking (not sense-making), certainly an achievement of the West...now the pendulum has swung to the East and look at the alacrity with which the Asian cultural traditions embrace the technological (dialectical) connected to a more hermeneutic (creative-circular) impulse...a natural human impluse that saw the circle of life as the centre of a spiritual-rational worldview, in the Pythagorean tradition, organsied through number and the balance of the feminine restored...
It's no conincidence that Pythagoras, Zoraster, Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tze all lived with a a life time of one another (about 150 years, so maybe two long lives).
I must get back to work and hope this aside does not sound too didactic...i can't read the text as a whole and there is no pause button, to offer me the editor's priviledge of an overnight test...hope all well with you...regards robert
thx for the healing energy. i did go get a few things for my friend in the afternoon. she is in very bad shape. much worse than me but different problems. it was too much for me. i was wiped out after. but i did get vit c. i started taking it yesterday afternoon and by the middle of the night started feeling better. was that the vit c or your healing energy or both? i dunno. am i better today? i dunno. not until i wake up.
My wife taught me to love cats... I truly empathize with their cattitudes, but something about being human compels me to be less self-centered than cats. Still, cats make me feel needed - if only to put out food, open doors, and provide a warm body on which they can sleep. I get along with most animals better than most people... non-verbal dialogue has its advantages.
Going back to my childhood, when I learned to mediate conflicts between my siblings (I was 2nd of 4), it seems I've always been a peacemaker. [Defn: Peacemaker - one who takes the blame from both sides.] Needless to say that I have been struck (literally) on the other cheek on more than one occasion. I long ago gave up on religion and am left with this internalized assumption that to be truly human (i.e., not divine) requires that one be prepared to make sacrifices for the well-being of others. It's not that I much care about being blessed, I'd just prefer that we all learn to live in peace.
I'll forward your references to whiteravenwaiting, Jule,who is much involved in the aboriginal rights and indigenous people's movements, and is interested in women's cultural history - a lovely book by an aboriginal elder called 'secret women's business' is one of her references...i'll have to take a few days on responses to your perspectives as i'm dealing with the effects of trying to rid my pc of its security software and the undeletable part of this intrusive malware is now messing with my internet connection...rb
Relational Being
Beyond Self and Community
Kenneth J. Gergen
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don't mistake me - i've have no bone to pick with those who find meaning/strength/comfort in religion. my degree is in religious studies (from a Christian Bros. university - though i was raised Methodist) and i almost had a double major in philosophy. now days, i'm a practicing accountant (w/o degree). spirituality, to me is an individual thing... each must find his/her own path. religion is a group thing - and when it becomes "group-think", i am cautious/concerned. i'm more into finding rhythms in nature (not exactly animism - but i do believe in sacred places and abstract energies that transcend the concrete world).
"does not include violent extremists or those who believe that their way is the only way..." - i am totally with you on this. think the writer of John's gospel made it up - i.e., i don't believe Jesus ever said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." i think Jesus' message was more, 'do as i do and you will find peace.' for example, the miracle of the loaves and the fishes was not about a miraculous creation of food - it was about people opening their hearts and sharing: if every one shares there will always be enough for every one. i think lao tsu said something to that effect that one will never have enough until one learns that enough is enough (terrible paraphrasing of Tao Te Ching #41).
Hi Lynne, i'm back although still with tech. difficulties...no irony considering.. i think best way to express what i'm talking about is simply to use a simple constructive approach to designing, or evaluating any knowledge... construct your own method (intuition plus good library skills is a start)...take dialogue,there so many sources and so much case material...it needs ordering to me...you however may feel happy to work with single method and build your experience throught practice - my next intention after what i'm currently working on...not sure this anwers you but i'll try and respond to your other questions and see how we go...rb
well i'm finally getting a reasonable flash website that will explain some of this...the 5method is a simple means of structing information...all you do is tak an idea like dialogue and break ot down...you may find one or two sorts to begin with, but as your study deepens you'll find that variety may increase at more than one level...if you may this out (visualise it) the simple impact is to show how all knowledge is built up of accepted language and terms (dominant ones are the bain of many lives) and these can be easily represented...finally the power of the computer will assist our sense-making not just our doing...i'll let you knwo when we go live...rb
do-gooder getting paid? i don't think so although i'd love to get paid. btw, most geeks don't get the money you think we get. you hear about a couple of them. that's it. since so much is off shored - it's tough to even find work - at any price. there is beauty in almost everything if you look. did you see the pics of the volcano erupting in/near japan taken from space? that is a sight to see. here's one: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
you can find more on the same site.
i'm almost all better now, just screwed up sleeping and not as much energy as normal. at least i can function!
well, i'm back now... sort of... today is payroll processing day for me (including paying my boss who lives in Vancouver, BC) so i'm rather busy... spent last three days house-painting with my Wife and didn't hardly touch a computer...
i don't do much good... but last week someone to whom i gave technical assistance/re Americans with Disabilities Act (last year) received letters form US DOJ, informing him that local government entities would be compelled to sign Settlement Agreements with US DOJ due to their failure to comply with ADA... one small victory for little guys in which i had very small part. if i could afford to live without paycheck, i'd do this part of my job for free.
Lynne, just a geopolitical fact FYI: CS is at the radical right margin of the political spectrum and Manitou is at the opposite end; i lived in Dgo for 20 years B4 coming to CS, but i'm a Chicago native (explaining why i am a progressive, but not a member of the Democratic Party - i've never been able to escape childhood perception that Democrats - per the Daley Machine - are corrupt or at least undisciplined). i love CO and the outdoor life, but often find myself so tangled in the political weeds of El Paso County that i don't get out to appreciate where i live... the last time i hiked to the top of Pikes Peak was in 2003... something wrong with that.
geology major? i would think that's so interesting. a few years ago i was cracking up about this - i was in a museum in denver and got to see rocks on display from around here! it does sound like you do notice the small things in life, which are usually the most important.
Hi Lynne,
I've been away too...good news...two university computing depts. have agreed to produce a working prototype for my software...although i'm now madly trying to convert my social science perspectives into something technologists can build...so hold any applause until they confirm the complete design as achiveable, sometime next month...i hope you and your family are well...keep in touch as i'm going to need wise people for this project, if-when it takes off...i should say wise women...i've been watching how they are using women as a political issue in Afghanistan...positining men as war-makers over centuries - so say all of us - and women as potential peace makers...this is a message that appears to be being orchestrated by political systems now, as the 'rationalists' realise the whole existing edifice is under so much strain from the speed and scope of change, that they need to resort to some decent first principles in order to enable some coherence in a world gone mad...clearly womanhood is our nearest first principle...best rb
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Global Sensemaking
Tools for Dialogue and Deliberation on Wicked Problems
Lynne Johnson's Comments
Comment Wall (74 comments)
I like your point about dialogue, and let me give a quick explanation of my method in response.
Using base 5, rather than computing Base 2, or financial/economic Base 10/12, i started to evaluate communication ethics (big field, ten years work plus) and found that i a simple mathematical means used to structure the multi-modal nature of the many sources i was reading was helpful...i then found that by exploiting the method in simple graphical templates, what was complex became simple so that anyone could get hold of it, use it and share it. This 'open' method also implied a more collaborative approach to knowledge evaluation (because it is open and shares sources and concepts equally from all participants in similar formats). Such an insight also offers a re-situation of the technology-human relation. We humans really need a 'low-tech' solution to dealing with technology and overcoming its priority, one of the many reasons i like the globalsensemaking community as this is clearly their aim.
So thinking of communication ethics using the method, we divided the discipline into five domains, based on how its taught in unis., they are: political, media, organisation (network), group and interpersonal.
Now, applying that model to dialogue, an interesting/creative and critical outcome is suggested (heuristic knowledge not certainty, as you can appreciate):
interpersonal - monologue (concept exists, isn't there a lot of it?)
group - dialogue - concept exists but has to be more carefully differentiated from debate and other forms of group communication as you mention.
organisation - decalogue - exists in medieval lit. Boccacio's Decameron, but more fittingly describes a multi-streamed communication limited by certain frameworks.
media - multilogue - as you suggest, but describing a massive interpretive cultural/technological communication beyond anyone to confront?
political - demologue - i'm not sure this concept exists elswhere, although rather useful. It describes a political act which Habermas, following Plato amongst others, puts at the heart of democracy. Funny, but in my studies of language it appears that quite often political language is omitted, hollowed out or carefully prescribed to reduce the value of words that call to account the political systems and powers...?
I am completing a research project on the nature of corporate dialogue practices, (for the record, minimal), and then straight onto the software development which wraps the base 5 numerics into a transparent, communication ethics based approach to visual presentation of data/information/communication/knowledge/judgement - BTW the models are integrated by running a 36 grid in which each heuristic is mapped against another, creating such two-word concepts as political dialogue, media dialogue, organisation dialogue etc - this displays a sort of optimum dialectical pattern for total implications of using the two models together.
Anyone can use the method 5+...and everyone does...its just that by formalising our social sense-making in simple numeric structures (visually the patterns are stunnning following from chaos, complexity, geometry, planatary and cellular, 'organic' patterns), while the key link is the simple numeric base beneath the template visuals.
Its an open source approach - we have a gateway symbol for communication ethics, which is our property, but other than that anyone can play the game - and they can devise their own gateway and build their own cultured approaches which we can then share...
These ideas have been published over a number of years and are now commonly used by governments and corporations alike, especiially in the education and sustainability fields.
Personally, I'm just interested in seeing a more ethical human-participative domain where people can flourish through their own critical-creative expression, and the myths of a violent-intemperate past are diminished to assist evolve our species. Women are at the forefront of this all, and my partner and women friends all respond to the system in a similar way...this is how we think...
Please read Plato's Republic (despite terrifying lack of women!!) to see that original dialogues were not competitive at their core - appearance/actuality is part of a subverted Pythagorean inception in which Plato was immersed and which suggested that knowledge was given out in certain ways to reduce its distortion - dialogue in Plato is part of an eductational-community practice that sorts knowledge via self-governance... surely where we are getting back to now, only using ICT to 'memorise' and 'comparatise'...
Aristotle and the Roman Church diminished Plato's 'divine' achievement I believe, and in doing so diminished much Western thought including the separation of women and the heresy of reincarnation. Of course, logics also laid out by Plato (the dialectic, drawn from the Pythagoreans) were taken up by Aristotle, and became a source of technological thinking (not sense-making), certainly an achievement of the West...now the pendulum has swung to the East and look at the alacrity with which the Asian cultural traditions embrace the technological (dialectical) connected to a more hermeneutic (creative-circular) impulse...a natural human impluse that saw the circle of life as the centre of a spiritual-rational worldview, in the Pythagorean tradition, organsied through number and the balance of the feminine restored...
It's no conincidence that Pythagoras, Zoraster, Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tze all lived with a a life time of one another (about 150 years, so maybe two long lives).
I must get back to work and hope this aside does not sound too didactic...i can't read the text as a whole and there is no pause button, to offer me the editor's priviledge of an overnight test...hope all well with you...regards robert
Going back to my childhood, when I learned to mediate conflicts between my siblings (I was 2nd of 4), it seems I've always been a peacemaker. [Defn: Peacemaker - one who takes the blame from both sides.] Needless to say that I have been struck (literally) on the other cheek on more than one occasion. I long ago gave up on religion and am left with this internalized assumption that to be truly human (i.e., not divine) requires that one be prepared to make sacrifices for the well-being of others. It's not that I much care about being blessed, I'd just prefer that we all learn to live in peace.
i needed a laugh. watch the developments in iran.... very bad s ituation now and events are moving rapidly.
I'll forward your references to whiteravenwaiting, Jule,who is much involved in the aboriginal rights and indigenous people's movements, and is interested in women's cultural history - a lovely book by an aboriginal elder called 'secret women's business' is one of her references...i'll have to take a few days on responses to your perspectives as i'm dealing with the effects of trying to rid my pc of its security software and the undeletable part of this intrusive malware is now messing with my internet connection...rb
Relational Being
Beyond Self and Community
Kenneth J. Gergen
bookshot Add to Cart
ISBN13: 9780195305388ISBN10: 0195305388 Hardback, 448 pages
Jun 2009, Not Yet Published
Price:
$45.00 (05)
Shipping Details
"does not include violent extremists or those who believe that their way is the only way..." - i am totally with you on this. think the writer of John's gospel made it up - i.e., i don't believe Jesus ever said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." i think Jesus' message was more, 'do as i do and you will find peace.' for example, the miracle of the loaves and the fishes was not about a miraculous creation of food - it was about people opening their hearts and sharing: if every one shares there will always be enough for every one. i think lao tsu said something to that effect that one will never have enough until one learns that enough is enough (terrible paraphrasing of Tao Te Ching #41).
peace
you can find more on the same site.
i'm almost all better now, just screwed up sleeping and not as much energy as normal. at least i can function!
i don't do much good... but last week someone to whom i gave technical assistance/re Americans with Disabilities Act (last year) received letters form US DOJ, informing him that local government entities would be compelled to sign Settlement Agreements with US DOJ due to their failure to comply with ADA... one small victory for little guys in which i had very small part. if i could afford to live without paycheck, i'd do this part of my job for free.
happy july 4th! fireworks here are rained out!
I hope your sister and family stuff get sorted and best wishes until then...been busy myself and will send updates when ready...regards robert
I've been away too...good news...two university computing depts. have agreed to produce a working prototype for my software...although i'm now madly trying to convert my social science perspectives into something technologists can build...so hold any applause until they confirm the complete design as achiveable, sometime next month...i hope you and your family are well...keep in touch as i'm going to need wise people for this project, if-when it takes off...i should say wise women...i've been watching how they are using women as a political issue in Afghanistan...positining men as war-makers over centuries - so say all of us - and women as potential peace makers...this is a message that appears to be being orchestrated by political systems now, as the 'rationalists' realise the whole existing edifice is under so much strain from the speed and scope of change, that they need to resort to some decent first principles in order to enable some coherence in a world gone mad...clearly womanhood is our nearest first principle...best rb
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